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In this week's Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Consumer Editor Jeremy Korzeniewski. They kick things off discussing the brand-new 2021 Ram 1500 TRX, discussing how it compares with its main rival, the Ford F-150 Raptor. They move on to the latest BMW 5 Series before a quick overview of the Buick Enclave. The podcast wraps up by saying goodbye to the Alfa Romeo 4C, which leaves the world after the 2020 model year.
Transcript[THEME MUSIC]
GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to "The Autoblog Podcast." I'm Greg Migliore. Joining me today on the phones is consumer editor Jeremy Korzeniewski. How are you doing, man?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I'm not too bad. Just a tiny little bit of snow accumulating on the ground out there, but not too bad for December.
GREG MIGLIORE: Good weather to talk about an off-road pickup truck, perhaps-- maybe like the RAM TRX, per se, hypothetically?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Hypothetically, if we get around to it.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, I mean, we might talk about this really hot Buick Enclave on here, too. I don't know if there will be time for the TRX. I'm kidding. We're going to lead off with the RAM TRX. Jeremy had a great drive with this earlier-- earlier this winter, fall, whatever spot we're in right now as the seasons change.
Took it to an off-road park somewhat near his place down there in Ohio, which-- the pictures are great. Check out the full review. Obviously, it's on our site. Really great pictures. It just-- yeah, and it, obviously, is a good story. So check that out.
Jeremy just get out of a BMW 5 Series. And we'll try to, maybe, get into a little bit on the Enclave, too. I've always had an interest soft spot, maybe, for the Enclave. I don't know. I've always just found it very interesting. That Lambda Architecture is what they used to call the chasses for the larger crossovers that General Motors developed way back when. And I've always found that the Enclave has actually been among the better ones. So we probably will get into that.
We'll close things out with a requiem for the Alfa Romeo 4C. They're sending it out right with a very limited edition that recalls one of the great Alfas from days gone by. But let's get right into it.
TRX-- pretty awesome. You got it right is the tail end of fall was winding down, before the weather got bad. But again, wouldn't matter for this thing. Just some initial thoughts. What did you think? I mean, you were pretty excited to get this. What did you think?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, I mean, it's hard not to be excited about a 700-something horsepower, lifted four-wheel-drive monster truck thing. And it was exactly as exciting as you'd expect it to be.
I subtitled my review of it "King of the Jurassic Parking Lot," which is my clever little witty way of calling to attention the fact that it's called the TRX, or T-Rex-- whatever, what have you-- because it competes against the Ford Raptor. So we've got these two trucks, dinosaur-themed, dinosaur-named. And as they are named, the TRX is the king of the off-road pickup trucks. It is faster, more capable than the Raptor.
And I say that understanding that we're nit-picking when it comes to picking an off-road winner, which one has better performance between the TRX and the Raptor. They are both extraordinarily capable. I have jumped both of them, had four wheels off the ground multiple times in each truck, and I can say that buyers of either vehicle are going to be extremely happy with their purchase.
So if you're a Raptor owner and it irritates you to hear someone like me saying that TRX is the better vehicle, don't feel bad. The Raptor is awesome, amazing. You're not really losing anything other than a few tenths to 60 and a little bit extra burliness from the TRX.
The vehicle itself-- 700 horsepower is a lot, and it feels like a lot, despite the fact that the TRX is stupidly heavy. I don't remember the last vehicle I've driven that feels as substantial-- maybe all the way back to the Hummer H2 that everybody vilified because it was just so big and burly, and unnecessarily so.
The TRX is just as big and burly. You could say not unnecessarily, though, because the thing is designed, literally, to take crazy off-road jumps at speeds that you would think are going to bend the frame up and up in a ruined truck. Not going to happen. It is the beefiest, burliest thing.
I crawled underneath it, looked at the suspension arms, looked at the frame. The frame rails of a regular RAM are pretty hefty, pretty big burly things to be able to tow and do everything that you need a pickup truck to do. Well, this, the TRX, is beefed up even more. I think they said something like 30% thicker steel it's got.
Just like the Raptor, it has shocks that are specifically designed for the truck in the form-- or in the case of the Raptor, that is Fox shocks. In the case of the RAM, that is Bilsteins, "Bil-steyns," however you want to say that. And they are epically good.
The thing that shocked me the most about the truck-- because I expected it to be an absolute off-road beast, and it was, so I wasn't shocked by that-- but what was truly surprising was just how civilized it is an actual everyday driving. I think the added weight of the truck, the significance of its mass, and the size of the tires and pliableness of the tires, combined with those super-specialized off-road shocks, allow it, really, just to suck up anything that you hit on the road, whether you're just driving around town-- and I live on a road that's a little bit bumpy. It's Ohio, so frost heaves, potholes, that kind of stuff.
The TRX just eats that kind of stuff up. You don't even realize you're driving down a bumpy road. On the highway, just absolutely rock solid. That was the part that was truly surprising and shocking to me, is just how composed it is in everyday driving.
And then, of course, what it's truly for is off-road. My brother-in-law owns a piece of property in Ohio, in Northwest Ohio, and he was kind enough to open it up for me and let me go crazy on that. I built a modified figure-eight course that wound through some trees, and then up and over a massive mound of dirt, and mud, and rocks.
And I mean, the TRX just eats it up. It was super stable and fun at high speeds. You put it into Baja mode using its little electronic selector inside, and it turns traction control off, lets you slip as much as you want to. I was sliding the rear end all over the place. I even got one of the front tires up off the ground a little bit in some of the really hard turns.
But it wasn't scary. The thing is so planted, it never felt like I was out of control. Truly impressive. I think the most fun that I had with it was high speed, gliding it through the trees, not worrying about the bumps, and ruts, and anything that was in my way. And yeah, it's just an absolutely impressive beast of a machine.
I'm curious to hear your take on the genre in general. And I think we have to touch on the excessiveness of the thing and the fact that the fuel economy is abysmal. When you're having fun with it and really goosing it like that, you are easily in single digits. And the week that I had it, I think I averaged right around 12 miles per gallon, which is-- not telling people what they can and can't buy, but I described it in a separate story, it's not an indictment of the truck, necessarily, because it's just a consequence of what they're building but you could call 12 miles per gallon irresponsible, and I don't think you'd be wrong.
So, thoughts?
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I think first of all, I'm really glad RAM did this, FCA did this. I think if, it makes so much sense for them, because essentially, what they're doing right now is marketing through horsepower, with the Hellcats and all the different sort of V8s you could get across their lineup. So I think it made a ton of sense to put a motor like this. This is-- I believe it's 702 horsepower--
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I think that's right.
GREG MIGLIORE: --V8 under the hood of the RAM. It's probably too much horsepower, like you said. A 33-gallon tank, roughly, if I'm looking at these specs right. So I mean, that's still a big tank, but I mean, even with the fuel economy that you're telling me about, it almost seems like you need to have an extra can of gas with you, if you ever got really far out there on the trail.
I mean, from an aesthetic standpoint, I love how it looks-- big tires, bold grill. I actually think they did a good job of not making it look cartoonish. They let the tires, those headlights, and then, just that-- the proportions, like those pronounced wheel arches, to help out with articulations and things like that, just do the talking. They could have been more cartoonish, but I think it's fine. I mean, this isn't, from a looks standpoint, much farther afield-- let's say, the RAM Rebel. In some ways, it looks more like a RAM-- partially because the RAM is probably the most styled-up full-size pickup truck-- than, say, the Raptor does. Which, I think, is a pretty big departure-- in a good way-- from the regular F-150.
I like the regular F-150, but to me, the Raptor really distinguishes itself with its overt crazy looks. To me, the RAM's already a little crazy, so when you dress it up like this, it's actually somewhat in line. I think the way FCA is using existing platforms, existing vehicle lines to just power them up is a logical move, because we actually don't know a ton about what's coming next for Fiat Chrysler, to be honest, beyond that they're mergering with-- "merging." "Mergering," that's a fun word. That they're merging with Peugeot and that entire group.
So I mean, honestly, we don't even know what's next for the Chrysler brand.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Right.
GREG MIGLIORE: There's big unanswered questions. So to me, it's like they're playing the hand, the cards that they're dealt, and they're playing them really well. You see this with the Charger and the Challenger. Old platforms, the LX platform, or whatever they're calling it these days, that they just keep iterating on, keep adding more horsepower, and people still love the cars. The Challenger sales are still pretty strong.
So yeah, I mean, I think this is one where I didn't drive it. I would love to drive it. I cannot wait to get behind the wheel of one. I hope they get one, maybe this one, in the Detroit fleet in the winter, because I love to drive trucks like this in the winter. I love to drive trucks in the winter, period.
So yeah, I mean, honestly, I think this is a home run for them, without having driven it. But I think just in premise and then execution, obvious play for them-- not only because of what the RAM is, but also because of what FCA is a company. So I can see how Honda might not go down this road.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Right.
GREG MIGLIORE: Just it's not their business model. They don't have a full-sized truck. So that makes some sense. But Fiat-Chrysler already has all those pieces sitting out there. Why not load them up on the RAM? So I think that makes a ton of sense.
I'm curious. You talked about your off-road course. How long did that take you to set up? Were you out there with a shovel and bales of hay? I don't know, it just sounds like a lot of fun to me.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, I wasn't that concerned about the terrain that I was going to be driving over, because like I said, the truck is just so crazy and ridiculous. So really, what I wanted to do with that course is be able to make it fast. You can climb, you can find something to climb just by heading onto a dirt road and looking for stumps, and fallen trees, and that kind of thing. If you're trying to figure out how to test articulation, and rock crawling, and that kind of stuff, there's ways to do it.
What's really difficult to do is to mimic the kind of high-speed off-roading that a truck like this is made for. So that's really what I was tempted to do. So we walked it a little bit. We mapped out, like, OK, the distance between these trees, you can slalom.
And when I say "trees," we're talking shrubs. I wasn't going to start flying through a forest and risk airbags or anything like that. I mean, little trees that didn't come up to-- and you could see in the image gallery that we published on "Autoblog," trees that didn't even come up to the top of the car. But we used those as pylons or cones and weaved through them.
And I don't know. It was maybe an 1/8-mile figure-eight course. And like I said, there was the big mound, and you could see the articulation shots in that, too. I drove up as far as I could on the mound of dirt and still have all tires firmly on the ground. If I had gone up any further, we would have lost contact-- which, locking differentials, all that kind of stuff, but just to show articulation.
So I mentioned it real briefly I went ahead and pulled up on fueleconomy.gov. So the TRX is rated at 10 city, 14 highway, 12 combined. So 10, 14, 12. The Raptor is 15, 18, 16. So that is a significant difference.
According to their calculator that they've got right here on fueleconomy.gov, on a Raptor, you'll spend $4,250 more over five years than average-- $4,250. The TRX is $11,500 more in fuel per year-- or, excuse me, $11,500 more over a five-year period compared to the average new car. So $4,250 for the Raptor, $11,500 for the TRX.
I don't bring that up because I don't expect that TRX buyers are going to think that's a fair trade-off they will. They're going to-- 700 horsepower, that's absolutely ridiculous. It does 0 to 60 in something ridiculous like four seconds, for a crazy off-road vehicle with its capabilities.
And I'm not throwing stones at FCA, because this is-- I mean, buyers are going to want this. They're going to. And I actually don't even think it's that outrageously priced. I think it's around $60,000 to start with, or is it-- I should look that up, shouldn't I?
GREG MIGLIORE: I'm seeing about 70, but--
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: 70, there you go.
GREG MIGLIORE: --that still seems entirely reasonable to me. When you factor the motor, plus all the off-road capability, in some ways, this is, I think, as good a value as or a better value than some of the cars, to be honest. Because those are just basically old sedans or two-door Challengers with big motors in them. Yes, they can do some amazing things in a straight line, but I mean, how much horsepower do you need to go really fast in a straight line? This could take you over anything, which I think is pretty neat.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, so I mean, that's really-- if you're listening to this, and you're thinking, oh, his big criticism is that it's inefficient, and that doesn't bother you, then the TRX is perfect for you. If you're hearing this and say, man, that sounds super awesome, but yeah, there is a part of me that really thinks that's wasteful, maybe consider the Raptor as a viable alternative. It's still bad gas mileage, but it's not quite as terrible as the TRX, and it is a little bit less expensive.
I think all things considered, the TRX is worth it. But yeah, I mean, not to harp on it, but that super inefficient fuel efficiency, that bugs me. That's a legit issue with vehicles that are aimed at this demographic.
GREG MIGLIORE: There's a part of me that really likes the Raptor, too, because in these segments, I tend to like the original one. I might sort of go for the second one, if you will-- like Wrangler, Gladiator, then Bronco. In the case of Gladiator, I ended up kind of just being, well, actually, I do think I like the Wrangler better than I like the Gladiator.
And same with Bronco. I mean Bronco is amazing. Can't wait to drive it. Part of me still feels like after I drive them both, I might like the Wrangler better. So that's-- to flip the coin, though, on FCA and Ford here-- I'm almost feeling that's how I might be with the Raptor. Yes, it's less powerful. It's a little more fuel-efficient.
But there's something about the Raptor, about how they-- I mean, it's a little cliche to say they invented this modern segment, but they kind of did. Back in, was it '08, '09, when the Raptor launched, there weren't many things like this out there-- the old hyper, really-big powered RAMS, and the old F-150s, I mean, it had been a while since we had seen some of those.
So to go down the road they did in the middle of the Great Recession, if you will, I think is pretty cool. And to me, that grill, the looks, I mean, it has all the horsepower you need to do whatever you want to do. You don't need a ton of horsepower off road.
I mean, sure, it's great for all the Baja-style crazy jumps and stuff you might want to do, and pre-running, and all that. But I mean, even if you're a hardcore enthusiast, the Raptor is more than enough power, and the RAM is pretty great, too.
So I don't know. Not having driven them back-to-back, I think I might still stay with the Raptor. But I don't know; I could definitely be persuaded, if you will. So that's how I'm handicapping the field.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting thought. I don't really know. I'm not really the target demographic for either one of these things. I'm not going to go out and buy something absolutely insane like this. I'm more the pragmatic car buyer myself. But I totally get it, and it's the most fun I've had in a vehicle this year.
So yeah, it's absolutely awesome. It's a super-impressive engineering feat, and hats off to FCA for building this thing, putting together the pieces, and giving buyers exactly what it is that they want.
GREG MIGLIORE: Cool. Well, how about we move along to the BMW 5 Series? A car that holds a special place in my heart. My brother owned one for a while. He since has traded it in, moved up to a large SUV. But whenever it was like, hey, man, you want to drive, or something like that? Like sure, absolutely.
If I recall, it had some issues with those run-flats and things like that, but I've always liked this sort of E-segment size car. To me, you get a lot of car, but it still can be sporty if you want to. But I think it wears the design elements of whatever brand-- whether it's Mercedes, or BMW, or Audi-- in this segment very well.
The 3 Series is, of course, the icon, but I've always liked how the 5 Series drove, how it handled, the power you could get in it. It's certainly a more useable car for, basically, anybody. If you want a little bit more room in the backseat, the 5 Series, you start to get some pretty reasonable space.
But what did you think? This is the refreshed one, if you will. Yeah, what do you think?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, refreshed for 2021. I actually did the original this current generation, which is what? I think G30; is what they're calling it?
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, sounds right.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, so I did the original drive on that. It was '17 or '18. And my opinion on the new one hasn't changed dramatically. We're still working on the write-up of this one. It'll be published, probably, by the time you're listening to this.
So check the site for the full write-up. But preview of that, it's still a 5 Series. And I think a lot of enthusiasts-- and present company not excluded in that; I fully put myself into this camp-- we have such fond memories of 5 Series of the past. Most specifically the E39 generation was just like-- I don't know, a perfect car. Not "perfect car," but "perfect sports sedan," luxury sports sedan.
You could still, at the time, get it with a six-speed manual transmission, rear-wheel drive, perfect driving dynamics, a host of super-smooth inline six engines, optional V8s. Styling was crisp and clean. It was sized right. You could fit four adults in it. What else do you want?
And I think we still have this hang-up of that's what we want a BMW 5 Series to be, and that's just not-- it's not possible for BMW to reintroduce the E39. That's not the direction that the luxury sedan, the luxury sports sedan segment as a whole has gone to.
So I don't think it's really fair to judge it on those grounds of, well, is this the ultimate driving machine? Well, I mean, it depends on how you're judging it. It is a better car now than it's ever been. The one that I'm testing is the 540i, which is an inline six.
It makes-- here, I've got the numbers. It is 335 horsepower and 332 pound-feet of torque from a 3-liter turbocharged inline six. It does 0 to 60 in 4.6 seconds when it's equipped with all-wheel drive, as mine is. And let's just take a moment to recognize that 4.6 seconds to 60 is really quick. It's not supercar quick, but it's supercar of 1995 quick. And who needs to accelerate from 0 to 60 faster than 4.6 seconds?
And I can tell you from my week driving it that it does that with zero drama, extreme comfort, and it's such a great, solid car. Super smooth, super quiet, and it's those kinds of things that BMW has to provide, along with, obviously, safety, and economy, and all that kind of stuff, where the line by which these vehicles are judged is so different in the year 2020 or 2021 than it was in those, what we think of, glory years.
And cars just aren't the same anymore. They've got to be electrified to the hilt, with steering that can control themselves, with every bit of traction control, with the world's best headlights. That's what modern luxury means these days, and 5 Series nails it.
Would I actually choose it? I still really like the E Class. I really love what Mercedes is doing with their interiors right now. They're just such a classy look, and maybe more my style than the more austere look of the BMW. But I would not fault anyone for choosing a 540i.
And the big difference, the number one change in this 540i 2021 as opposed to 2020 is the addition of a new 48-volt mild hybrid system. It is completely un-felt by the driver. There's no hint that there's any sort of electronic wizardry going on.
It is actually kind of like what they used to refer to as the mild hybrid systems that GM used to do a lot. It is like a big alternator connected through a belt to the engine, to the crankshaft, unlike some other systems that put an electric motor directly into the transmission or by the output shaft, something like that. But kudos to BMW for excellent engineering. All you feel, or all you get out of it, is better fuel efficiency and zero gaps in power, because it is a turbo 3-liter.
So typically, with a turbo, you'd feel a little bit of lag while it's building up. There's nothing like that at all in the 540i. The electric motor generator thing fills in any weak spots in the power curve. It doesn't actually boost overall output, but it fills in any gaps and makes just a completely flat power curve. Really well done by BMW.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I think the 5 Series is an interesting example of a car that is-- proportions and size of the segment has changed. The 5 Series had to evolve along with it. BMWs had to evolve and change.
The 5 years right now is relatively large compared to how it always was. It always was the bigger-- obviously, in between the 3 and the 7-- but now, it's a good-sized car. And I think for a lot of people, this is the car that they need versus, say, a 7 Series. Because really, there's a big price difference, and there's really just a size difference, how the cars drive. To me, if you're in-between, you're looking at 3, 5, or then pick one of those grand coupes that tweens in between and confuses us all-- that sort of thing.
How does it live up to the like the historic predecessors so many of us have come to know and love as enthusiasts? Well, that's tricky. But I guess if that's what you want, you should probably go buy a used one.
Just looking around, I mean, hey, you can get a great deal on BMW 5 Series for-- here's one with 200,000 miles on it, 1995, 525, for 1,200 bucks. Here's an '85 one for about 25,000. That looks more showroom-y. But I've actually honestly thought about it, because I've always liked the dynamics of BMWs, their understated looks.
I've thought about getting an older 3 Series, 20 years old somewhere in there, older 5 Series, 20, 25 years old, just to have as a weekend car or something. Haven't quite done that yet, but to me, that's where you go back to the legend. And right now, I think some of the refinements and enhancements, and it's a bigger car, and changing up the power train the way they have, it's what they have to do. Mercedes is doing the same things.
I give the edge to the E class in the segment. Even though I really like, just like I said, the vibe of a BMW-- everything from the steering, to the looks, and so on-- but just I think the Mercedes interiors right now are a little bit better.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think they affect a very elegant look, that sort of thing.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, and you've got to throw the A6 in there as well.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, that's a really good car, too.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, it's hard to go wrong with any of them. I can tell you that the BMW, just it drives excellent. You can't poke anything at it, other than the fact that it's not an E39. Those cars had such lively steering, and they really made you feel like you were part of it. And now you're much more isolated, and it is a little bit more numb than those classic 5 Series.
But like you were alluding to, it's over $60,000. My test vehicle is over 60. I think it was around 65, maybe, even. And that's a lot of money. If you really want a sweet old E39, you can probably get a really great one and bank $25, $30,000 for inevitable maintenance and all that, and you'd still be under the cost of this.
And let's talk about what you won't get. You won't get a car that can semi-autonomously steer itself, speed up and slow down with traffic, have these amazing safety features, and the crash test results aren't going to be as good. All that kind of stuff is-- those are realistic reasons why new cars aren't the same as old cars.
It's not going to park itself like the new one does. It's not going to have these sweet infotainment systems that we all know and love. And yeah, so anyway, I feel like we're going down a weird path with that.
Getting back to just the 2021 5 Series, it's better than the car that it replaced. Realistically speaking, it's the best 5 Series BMW has ever made. And the number one thing after getting out of it after driving a while is, it's very relaxing. You feel good when you get out of it. You're like, OK, that was a really nice way to get from A to B.
GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds good. Well said. I think we can leave it there. I think you summed it up neatly right there. Let's just briefly touch on the Enclave. Is there anything new with the Enclave? I guess let me start off with that. Or were we driving this more for comparison's sake, I guess? Remind me what's new with the Enclave, if anything.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: It's pretty much the same. There's some mild differences, but nothing that anyone is going to rush out and get the new model year over the previous one. But driving it was a reminder of-- I don't know. The Enclave, I think it's the best looking of GM's large three-row crossovers. It's certainly the most isolated. I mentioned in the 5 Series, about the 5 Series we were talking about, that it's smooth, serene, and quiet. Well, those adjectives apply very much to the Enclave, especially the high end-- and I don't even know how you say it-- Avenir? What, how would we say that? Avenir?
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, Avenir, yeah, They borrowed that concept car name from years ago-- five years ago?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, I mean, it's just an absolute quiet, comfortable, serene vehicle to spend time in. You could say boring if you wanted, and I think that's the point. It's supposed to be smooth, quiet, comfortable, above all else. And that's exactly what it is. It's isolated from the road.
It doesn't wallow like a '70s Cadillac or anything like that. That's not the point. It's calm and composed, but yeah, put your family in that, drive to dinner. It is not a driver's car, it's not trying to be, and it nails its demographic.
GREG MIGLIORE: Cool. You had the 3.6-liter, I might imagine, under the hood?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I did, yeah, the 3.6, all-wheel drive. Buick does some funny things, though. If I'm going to pick on the vehicle a little bit, still a lot of buttons inside Buicks. They haven't really switched over to a touch-heavy interior system. And I think in general, that's good for Buick. They do have-- and I'm not here to say that older buyers can't figure out modern infotainment systems. I don't think that that's the case at all. But do they want it? Do they want a very tech-centric driving experience? Probably not.
But if I had to point fingers at it, I would say that the interior buttons, and knobs, and switches are lackadaisical. They're a little-- they're just bland. It's like black plastic, black plastic, black plastic, with white labeling.
And it's tactile. It works. But yeah, I don't think, for a vehicle that's-- if they want to start comparing themselves with Acura, and Infiniti, and Lexus-- which is their running mates in the segment-- I don't think their switchgear is up to snuff. And I don't want to harp on it, because it's the kind of thing that I think we, as journalists, really pick on, much more so than the actual buyers do. But if I'm buying a Buick and spending that much on an Enclave, I don't really want to see black plastic buttons that I'd expect to find in a [INAUDIBLE].
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I think that's entirely reasonable. I think it's showing a little bit of awareness, knowing that Buick is trying to skew younger, but I mean, their demographic is still a little bit older. So I mean, it's probably a smart move, a savvy play, just to keep it simple with the knobs and the buttons.
Also, I mean, they haven't really redesigned the interior in quite some time. So maybe it will move a little more tech-centric going forward. I have generally liked the Enclave as far as the looks department. Like you, I think it might be the best-looking of the three General Motors large crossovers. The Acadia, in certain terms, I think, could look pretty good after they redesigned it and gave it some new headlights. It's a very light refresh, but it does look a little better, a little more tougher, especially in [? AT4 ?] trim.
But still, overall, the Enclave, especially when you dress it up in Avenir trim, is pretty good-looking. I mean, plus, there's so many Buick, and Lexus, and everybody else commercials on right now, cars like this feel like the thing to drive this time of year. So these vehicles make a lot of sense. We've been talking a lot about on the site, on the podcast, just in general about the Suburban which I drove recently, the Tahoe which Joel and James have been in recently. You don't necessarily need large body-on-frame vehicles like that for everybody.
These things are still huge, too. That's the other point. For a while there, it was like these three crossovers were really getting up there with the Tahoe, just as far as sheer size. But you got the unibody construction. You got a little more of an on-road-friendly all-wheel drive system-- that sort of thing. Anyways, yeah, I'd agree with you. I think it's probably the best-looking of the GM triplets, if you will.
I'm old enough that I remember when there wasn't a Chevy version initially, but there was a Saturn version. In fact, I think the Outlook may have been the first one to launch. But I'm dating myself.
And then, when they did a redesign of the Acadia, probably 10 years ago, it looked a lot like the Outlook. If you do some funny Googling, you can see the separated-at-birth, that there's a 20-something Acadia that looks a lot like the Outlook from the year prior or something.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, no, I remember that as well. I think what they did was they took the Outlook that was going away and basically-- I don't want to say "re-badged" it, because I don't think it was quite that simple, but basically made that into the more upscale GMC version. And at the time, though, I've always thought that the Enclave was the best-looking of those big three-row crossovers, and I think that stands to this day.
It's just more-- it's more styled. It's got swooping curves to it, and Buick's kind of chrome grill works on a vehicle of this size, and the swoopy lines of current Buicks work. And they translate well to this size vehicle.
And I think that's still true. It's classy, I think. The Enclave, inside and out, is just-- it's a classy, well-designed vehicle. And yeah, I mean, I don't think that the Enclave is really going to bring a lot of young buyers into Buick showrooms, but the buyers who are purposely choosing it, I think they're probably doing so because it is-- I don't know, like that throwback, non-overly-tech-y driving experience. They probably want that.
GREG MIGLIORE: They make a ton of money off of them, too. I mean, it's a large SUV in a segment where people need vehicles like this. Some people are just always going to skew domestic. You've got to have something there. So I think it's-- obviously, it's a pretty well-executed product for Buick.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: And they've often talked about how they haven't changed it a ton over the years. Again, to go back-- we're really flashing back here 10 years ago-- but the Enclave was better than the other GM versions of this vehicle. It was better-looking. It was the first one. It was stylish. I believe it won a bunch of awards. So at this point, it's more soldiering on. It probably could use a good interior upgrade to get back to-- because when it launched, it did feel pretty special and premium. So I think that's a lot of Buick talk, maybe.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, second best-selling Buick, for what it's worth.
GREG MIGLIORE: There you go.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: There you go, yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Let's talk about something that is pretty slow-selling, the Alfa Romeo 4C. I got this press release, and I was pretty intrigued, because it's like, they're going to send out the 4C with this Tributo, if you will, special edition that solutes one of the great Alfas back from 1967. And it's also a swan song, if you will, the farewell for the 4C-- which, to be perfectly honest, I thought they killed this car off two or three years ago. I forgot completely that it was still technically a new car you could drive.
So yeah, check out the story on our site. It's a nice special edition, if you're a really like hardcore-- "Alfisti," I think, is the right word-- you might want to pick one of these up if you could get your hands on one. But that's about it.
For me, the broader play is like, oh, hey, the 4C is still here, and there it goes. I don't know. What do you think about the 4C? Just kind of riff here.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Well, they did kill the coupe off a few years back. They only kept the Spider. So I think maybe the last two years, it's just been Spider, something like that. And there won't be a 2021. It's officially going away after 2020.
And the one that they're building here, it's called the 4C Spider Stradale Tributo. And if you are an Italian out there who speaks Italian, my apologies. I'm sure that I butchered that terribly. But anyway--
GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds all right to me, and I'm half Italian. So--
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: [LAUGHS] The 33 Stradale Tributo. It's a pretty cool swan song. Take a look at the photo gallery on autoblog.com. They put a red tint on the exposed carbon fiber that you see inside the interior of the Stradale Tributo. It is very pretty.
I haven't seen it in person. I'm only looking at photos. But I've seen these tinted composites before, and I always think they look pretty cool. And what they do is they tint the epoxy resin that holds all those wound carbon fibers together, so they end up with an interesting-looking black and red kind of snakeskin pattern almost.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, it's pretty sweet-looking.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, and since it's viewable from inside, I think that's an especially cool way for them to set this vehicle apart, as opposed to the standard clear and black, clear-coated look. So that's cool.
They did make one mistake, though. They parked it next to the old Stradale that is just absolutely gorgeous. You'll see it in the photo galleries that accompany the thing, accompany the press release and story on "Autoblog.q
I mean, the new one looks really, really cool. I've always liked the look of the C. But take a look at the 1967 33 Stradale that they parked it next to, and that thing stands out as an absolutely gorgeous machine. Can you see that now, Greg?
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I think it looks great. I think I'm pretty sure I've seen that car. I imagine, since they did a photo shoot with it, it's probably the same car they rolled out at the LA Auto Show a few years back. They did this-- Alfa didn't have a ton of news at the point, so basically, their floor display was outside the LA Convention Center, and it was just this big, almost, tent with an expedition of great Alfas.
And I remember going out there on the second day of the show, and there wasn't a ton of news, and just drinking espressos and looking at the cars, because they were so sweet. And I'm pretty sure this is one. To me, the old one harks back to that great '60s, a little early '70s look of those like race cars that are curvy, but they've got those big wheels. I mean, it's just gorgeous cars.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Love that style, love everything about it. I think you've got to give some credit to the 4C, though, too, as far as just the fact that this was the car that brought Alfa Romeo back to America. I don't really count the AC, because they sold, what, 50 of them or something?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, it was very few.
GREG MIGLIORE: And that was a beautiful car, too. But I guess in some ways, to your point, it's tough to live up to the legend. We talked about that with the 5 Series. And when you look at that beautiful car from '67, you've got to look to really see the parallels. And to be fair, Alfa is not really saying that.
And there are some, especially if you look, maybe, door-forward. The way they set up the shot, you can see it. But I've also always thought the 4C, it looked more like a Lotus than it did like what I would expect an Alfa Romeo sports car to look like. So there's that.
To me, it was always a little more technical, a little rougher than it, maybe, necessarily needed to be. It certainly lived up to the performance and capability that the brand's heritage would suggest it would have, but man, it was a rough car, too. That was a roller coaster ride.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Oh, yeah, so rough. So rough. I remember, I don't know, I spent an hour driving one, back when they first were announced. And the thing that shocked me the most is how much I appreciate modern undercoating.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Because the 4C is all about lightweight. So anything that they didn't have to do to it, they didn't. And that includes undercoating.
So when you drive over just like a little bit of gravel, and those sticky tires throw it up all over the place, as a mechanically sympathetic person, I feel like I'm hurting the thing, and it makes me cringe a little bit as I hear all the gravel and little rocks tinging on the underbody of the car. But I mean, it's fine. You're not breaking anything, especially since it's mostly made of composites anyway.
But yeah, it's like this is what I think driving a Lamont-style race car would be like. It's you in some seats with a steering wheel and the engine behind your head. And if you're driving it like you're supposed to be driving it, and wringing the engine out all the time, you basically need earplugs to drive the thing.
It's the most visceral, raw car you can buy in America today. And I think it's better off because of it, and it's super cool. But I also get why they barely sell any of them, because it would be such a difficult vehicle to have as your daily driver.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I mean, you can barely drive it on the road, to be perfectly honest, because it's so challenging, and you're so low to the ground. And to me, the steering was all over the place. It's like it's light, but it also requires a lot of work. And it could be really heavy, depending on what you were doing.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: If you're driving slow, yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: So very challenging car. Just the gearbox-- I believe it was dual-clutch, right? I think that's right. But I mean, I never could quite get the shifts right with that. I don't know; it was very challenging car to drive . Beautiful car. Like I said, challenging, and perhaps in a good way, but again, not for everybody.
I remember we had one up at Tech of the Year back in, jeez, '14? I'm really going back. I don't know what we were testing. If we were testing old, raw technology of how it was current, or what we were doing, it's probably the carbon fiber tub or something that we were trying to-- maybe we just wanted to drive an Alfa 4C. I don't know. But yeah, man, that thing was rough. I remember, it felt like the engine behind my ears was about to like rip me apart.
But I mean, it's the kind of car that I'd love to drive if I had, maybe, a country estate, and I could take it out on the road. It would almost be like a workout for an hour-- drive it throughout those challenging roads, and then put it away and get back in my Giulia or something, or Stelvio, and do it that way.
And I actually did drive one-- here's a random story-- through downtown Manhattan one time. You were there.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Oh, I remember that, yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: We did that virtual reality 360 shoot thing at the Manhattan Car Club.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: And they were like, what car do you want to drive? And I don't know what I was thinking. I'm like, give me the Alfa. And yeah, I remembered to get back into the car club, I basically had to drive over the sidewalk. I mean, good grief! That's a story to tell the grandkids about, I guess, but--
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, I think that day, I think I drove-- or rode-- an Indian Scout motorcycle right through downtown Manhattan, right? And talk about two vehicles ill-suited to the task, right?
GREG MIGLIORE: We were both trying to spend some of our nine lives of the cats or something there-- like, let's do this. But I guess the videos turned out good, and it's good time, right?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Memories.
GREG MIGLIORE: Memories, yeah. Well, memories. We'll leave it there. Memories, 'tis the season. We'll be back next week with one more podcast before 2020 is out, and we can leave it there.
Jeremy, take care of yourself. Any plans for this weekend?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: I have a hot tub coming on. So this is probably more information than any of our listeners care for, but my 20-year wedding anniversary is coming up in January.
GREG MIGLIORE: Nice.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: And since we're still in the throes of a global pandemic, we won't be traveling anywhere. So instead of going on vacation, we are instead spending that money on a hot tub.
GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds good.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Yeah, that gets delivered on Monday, and I'm going to be prepping the area for it this weekend. Got to get perfectly flat, and get all the blocks and all that kind of good stuff down.
GREG MIGLIORE: Now, does that go indoors or outdoors?
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: It's outdoors, but the way our house is set up, it's in between the side porch and a back porch.
GREG MIGLIORE: Nice.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: So yeah, we won't have to travel very far in our bathing suits in the middle of December to get in and out of it.
GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds good. Well, that is-- instead of spending money on cars, spend money on some hot tubs. There we go.
That's all the time we have this week. Everybody be safe out there , and we'll see you next time.
JEREMY KORZENIEWSKI: Good night, everybody.
[THEME MUSIC]
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